Curse

Longshaft · May 08, 2005, 01:02 PM // 13:02

I think we need a new term coined to describe players in PVE who treat each mission like it was a mindless race. In at least 90% of the groups I’ve joined, at least one (usually many, but one is all it takes to start a chain reaction) member races from battle to battle without any brief pause or thought for:

1. where he is going (how many loops have u done?)
2. what the quest requirements/clues are (hey genius, these tell u where to go)
3. the health or energy levels of fellow members (well, id like to help fight with a spell but…oh look..no energy)
4. the location of fellow members (don’t mind me…ill just waste time by picking up this purple item while u race ahead and….oh…where did u go?)
5. the tactical requirements of a situation (monsters to the left of me, monsters to the right of me, and monsters in my path. I’ll just run straight and into the jaws of stupidity…
6. communication. Other than the occasional map ping, the only thing they say is “go, go, go”

Why are these traits so common in the game? Well, it’s the rewards that drive many (most?) players; loot, items, levels and the “status” they bring. Thus, the missions are simply things to get through as fast as possible so that more rewards can be had before mom makes u go to bed.

I guess I’m one of the few players who actually like to aggressively explore, but also take the time to read notices/clues, view the landscape, discuss the quest we are on and in short, feel/enjoy the atmosphere of a mission and the ppl in my group. This is a social game right?!

the mindless racing-hack’n slash play of Guild Wars members is truly frustrating, but game designers are partially to blame. Very rarely are players penalized for this playing style since the mental challenges of missions rarely rise above that of the infantile, and the death penalty does little to stop the mindless rushes into battle. And while the PVP element of GW may be tactical, i see very little group tactics required for PVE.

Solutions:

1. Instead of putting in more mind-numbing auto-pilot hack and slash encounters in order to provide more “content” and playing time, please put in a few more mentally/tactically challenging areas. They need not be huge cognitive conundrums, but at least something to make u pause and think a bit before the race begins again. Remember, this is an adult game as well. Erm..or is it?
2. Provide some way to let like-minded/playing style ppl group-up (guilds help, but don’t solve!). Right now u can only sample PVE players for groups by looking at their level, character and name. It would be nice if players had an icon next to their name that denoted a self-proclaimed playing style (and age?): Racer vs Tactical vs Just give me the money vs Smell the flowers etc. Maybe a double click on a person would bring up a very short self-bio. It would certainly make the game more social and let ppl group with ppl whom they can find a shared rewarding game experience with.

And before u say it, guilds are not for everyone, and even guildies would like to meet more of the "right" kinds of ppl.

Oziamus Amadi · May 08, 2005, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Those are some great ideas but as with anything it all boils down to the people you play with I guess. There are just some people who want to kill all, do all, be uber over all in the shortest amount of time possible. This isn't just in GW...these people are in EQOA, EQ, EQ2, AC, MXO, NWN (lol)....no matter the game there are just people like that.

I won't blame them or say that their playstyle is wrong....because hey if you shell out the cash I do think that you have the right to play as you see fit as long as you are forcing your way or others or being a griefer/exploiter/killstealer.

I remember in the OLD days of my first raid in a mmorpg I wanted to dash in and kill, kill, kill which resulted in my death and the death of a bunch of people lol....go enchanters! But the more experience I got, the more time I spent in the game I learned to appreciate the journey instead of the arrival. And hopefully more who play this game and others will come to the same place I did.

You are right that more strategy etc. could be involved in games like this and others. But even saying that a large majority of buyers and players won't go for it. No matter how good a game says it's going to be or no matter who they cater to sooner or later it's going to get to the point where they have to do what they were supposed to do in the first place....make money. And I guess (could be wrong) in the case of GW it's enough across the board that it gives everyone a little bit of what they were looking for.

You're dead on about the playstyle id though....maybe the bio or like what was discussed in the other forum about a seperate district might be a good idea. Or maybe even advertisements on the forums. It's always a good idea to group with like-minded people when playing online games....makes the time go a lot smoother imo. However sometimes it's good to break it down to some of the "speedy" players out there and show them what they are missing.

Also another thing to think about is how long this game has been released...like how EQ2, WoW, etc. leveled off after a few months this game will too. Some will either get bored from rushing through, or will just decide that this isn't their game and move on.

Such is the way of the mmorpg world lol.....

Tharkon · May 08, 2005, 01:45 PM // 13:45

This all could get solved if people actully communicated. The best people who can solve this is not the developers but the people who play the game.

If just somone bothered saying "I'm heading out for a journey into the unkown, I need a strong warrior and a wise sorcerer/s to acompany me, somone who will share both his or hers fortune but also her pain so that everyone can help each other out."

Let's say a pair answers "Greetings sir, maybe we are the blood you are looking for? May I hear your plans for the journey and your strategy and maybe we shall join thee".

Devil's Dictionary · May 08, 2005, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Hey Longshaft.
I'd have to partially disagree with you: in harder quests and in many missions, the players you describe simply don't live long without support from their allies. What you say is right in most explorable areas when the monsters are a few levels below you, though.
I wouldn't blame Guild Wars: it would be the same as to blame U.S.A. in general for President Nixon. Those players are annoying, yes, but usually I can spot them by their name/looks/speeches (most of the time I avoid Necromancers with punk hairstyles and most female elementalists) and avoid them.

Longshaft · May 08, 2005, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tharkon

This all could get solved if people actully communicated. The best people who can solve this is not the developers but the people who play the game.

thats a big part of my point. many ppl in GW dont communicate. lol. hard to have two way communication when only one person is willing to talk, and more importantly, listen.

the game developers can and need to aid in communication to make GW anything but a hack and slash. see my suggestions for this.

Longshaft · May 08, 2005, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEATH AT THE DOOR

I wouldn't blame Guild Wars

u can't change human nature, but u can change game code.

1. GW could make grouping with like-minded, like-styled players much easier.
2. GW could make the missions more tactically challenging

All this would do is add depth and social improvements to a game that really is nothing more than hack and slash once u pick your skill set. (is this why so many ppl stand around dancing instead of questing?)

I'm lvl 18 now, and im no genius, but i can honestly say there was only two or three times (out of maybe 200 battles) where i had to actually think about having a planned attack.

I realize we don’t want GW to be Myth, but c'mon, add some more challenge to the old brain GW. I know 14-year-old boys (sadly the marketing target for most entertainment products today) don’t like it, but gaming is for Adults too!!!

Kilguri · May 08, 2005, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longshaft

u can't change human nature, but u can change game code.

1. GW could make grouping with like-minded, like-styled players much easier.
2. GW could make the missions more tactically challenging

All this would do is add depth and social improvements to a game that really is nothing more than hack and slash once u pick your skill set. (is this why so many ppl stand around dancing instead of questing?)

I'm lvl 18 now, and im no genius, but i can honestly say there was only two or three times (out of maybe 200 battles) where i had to actually think about having a planned attack.

I realize we don’t want GW to be Myth, but c'mon, add some more challenge to the old brain GW. I know 14-year-old boys (sadly the marketing target for most entertainment products today) don’t like it, but gaming is for Adults too!!!

Actually, I think GW has some of that already. Gates of Kryta? Ascesion missions? Does that mean people will not rush into a horde of monsters, die instantly and blame you? most likely not, I had it happen in every other mission, but I make it a challange to be the one who actually survives and doesn't die on every second encounther... I just use my res as an excuse to back off when people do stupid things like that and usually end up with +10 morale while everyone is at -60 penalty

Anarchy 2k · May 08, 2005, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longshaft

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH... i see very little group tactics required for PVE.

BLAH BLAHs:

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.

You haven't made it past Lion's Arch yet have you?

Kaos the Korruptor · May 08, 2005, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longshaft

2. Provide some way to let like-minded/playing style ppl group-up (guilds help, but don’t solve!). Right now u can only sample PVE players for groups by looking at their level, character and name. It would be nice if players had an icon next to their name that denoted a self-proclaimed playing style (and age?): Racer vs Tactical vs Just give me the money vs Smell the flowers etc. Maybe a double click on a person would bring up a very short self-bio. It would certainly make the game more social and let ppl group with ppl whom they can find a shared rewarding game experience with.

And before u say it, guilds are not for everyone, and even guildies would like to meet more of the "right" kinds of ppl.

Yes I really think that would be a great Idea. I believe what we need is Player Profiles, like on Battle Net Chat. you know while you are in towns and outposts people can click on your character and see your profile where you can type a little about yourself, like the current Division and Rank you hold in your guild.
And what other character combinations you currently have made so peeps can ask you about them and stuff.... Lol the Profile window can just be free type area like the guild announcement area when you type whats up with your guild..... Just only visable when you click on your character.

Well thats my 2 cents worth.

eventhorizen · May 08, 2005, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Change game code because some people dont have a clue about teamwork? Yeah good one, every time Longshaft see' something in the game that annoys him, lets change the code....

mullen · May 08, 2005, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarchy 2k

You haven't made it past Lion's Arch yet have you?

i agree with him and i am almost done with desert

Tharkon · May 08, 2005, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longshaft

thats a big part of my point. many ppl in GW dont communicate. lol. hard to have two way communication when only one person is willing to talk, and more importantly, listen.

the game developers can and need to aid in communication to make GW anything but a hack and slash. see my suggestions for this.

There is litle point with that if no one is willing to do it. As I said, if we can orginize our communite and such then we dont need this. If we cant then we have no use of it (your suggestions.) Sadly

eventhorizen · May 08, 2005, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Dude join a guild of players who arent kiddies or idiots, or just accept the fact if people want to run around doing their own thing, you wont find out until you get into a mission.

alzy · May 08, 2005, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEATH AT THE DOOR

(most of the time I avoid Necromancers with punk hairstyles and most female elementalists) and avoid them.

Thanks for that..I am playing a female elementalist and am quite happy to play 'as a team-member', and like Longshaft my play style is to take my time and actually 'explore'. I feel that this is a great way to get value for money, I didn't leave post-searing Ascalon 'til I was level 7 and saw a hell of a lot of the countryside and played through a lot of quests (although you did say 'most of the time' you avoid us).

Jackell · May 08, 2005, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by alzy

Thanks for that..I am playing a female elementalist and am quite happy to play 'as a team-member', and like Longshaft my play style is to take my time and actually 'explore'. I feel that this is a great way to get value for money, I didn't leave post-searing Ascalon 'til I was level 7 and saw a hell of a lot of the countryside and played through a lot of quests (although you did say 'most of the time' you avoid us).

I do the same thing as Death at the Door. Though you may be cool, most of my experiences with Punk necro's and female elementalists turn out to be bad. I've heard more "OMFG fuk u n00bs where were you?" from those two classes than any others, and invariably, it's those people who are the ones who ran off and thought they were a super tank. Sometimes, their even worse about tanking than the healer henchman.

Iteicea Destroidium · May 08, 2005, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Dont you think stereotyping us kids is a bit off...I personally agree with your ideas and always see things on the "adult" side of things. Yet I am constantly looked down upon because I am 16 years old. I run a guild and most the people that find out im 16 leave, despite the fact that I've proved I am more "adult" than them. I guess I got a bit off topic...but all I'm saying is dont say its the kids that are doing it all...say the l337 people or something to that effect, because its not fair to say all of us kids are like that.

Thanks,
Iteicea

heeman · May 08, 2005, 11:01 PM // 23:01

People just want to rush and rush. They just want more XP. They just want super weapon and items. They just want to get it fast as they can.
IF there is no healer or monk it will make people to slow down a bit. This will make them think more about strategy and team work. If there was more penalty to death people will communicate more. I'm not suggesting to change anything. I'm just saying people are rushing without enjoying the game. I'm usually only person talking and taking screen shot. Maybe, I enjoy this game more than every joe. I think people are used to leveling up in fast pace. THere are so many power levelers out there in other MMOrpg. I don't blame kids. I blame other MMORPG. People need to slow down and at least read the quest.

GW is game I been waiting for. This game is great because you don't hunt for rabbit or snake for 2months like other MMORPG. You enjoy good part of game it doesn't take 1 year to do it.

Jackell · May 08, 2005, 11:03 PM // 23:03

I think when people refer to the kids in an mmo, they mean the people who have the mental capacity of a spoiled 6 year old, and the mentality of one as well. When playing with someone, you can't see their age, but you can get a feel for how they mentally act, and that's the main descriptor.

Iteicea Destroidium · May 09, 2005, 12:01 AM // 00:01

yes how i hate that type...but thank you for clarification..I never thought of it from that angle

r0tc0d · May 09, 2005, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

I guess I’m one of the few players who actually like to aggressively explore, but also take the time to read notices/clues, view the landscape, discuss the quest we are on and in short, feel/enjoy the atmosphere of a mission and the ppl in my group. This is a social game right?!

I love you...

I agree 100%... that's why I normally just play with my friends.